Merely ‘Ellen’s’ label stays a secret, here appears to be no-you to called Ellen or Helen, except maybe a keen ‘Eleanor’ on Joanna’s top (Eleanor out of Aquitaine, mom out of Joanna’s father King John)
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The primary intent behind this exercising is to try, of the a glance at genealogist’s views about the subject and by asking specific identified brand spanking new present, to decide who was simply the caretaker out of Gwladus Ddu ferch Llywelyn. Was she Joanna, partner out of Llywelyn ab Iorwerth (Joan Plantagenet: Produced circa.1188, passed away. February 1237) otherwise is she Tangwystl ferch Llyarch of Rhos, mistress from Llywelyn, produced circa. 1168, passed away??
I am going to follow this which have a holiday studies towards you’ll be able to life away from a beneficial ded Susanna, offered off to King Henry 111 because the good hostage for the 1228 with her custody being provided to Sir Nicholas Verdun with his spouse Clementia.
The newest opinions of your Genealogists that we has analyzed are merely one, opinions, in addition they differ greatly. No distinct research can be found in either case, but i have to declare that the vast majority of keep to own Gwladus to get brand new daughter away from Joanna. This is especially valid of the genealogists of descendants out of this new De Braose nearest and dearest, but they ily to be tied to both Welsh and you may English royal property!
The list following from Llywelyn’s several legitimate and you will illegitimate students appears as basically accepted by all genealogists which i have studied apart from variations over if # 9 most existed. The schedules from delivery the following also are disputed by specific:
- Gruffudd ap Llywelyn, created circa.1199, died 1244
- Gwladys Ddu ferch Llywelyn, born circa.1206, passed away 1251
- Ellen (Helen, Elen) ferch Llywelyn, produced circa 1206? passed away circa 1253,
- Margred (Margaret) ferch Llywelyn, produced circa 1208? passed away circa 1263,
- Dafydd ap Llywelyn, Prince from Wales, produced circa 1208 (1211?) (second thoughts about it time, see later), died 25 March 1246,
- Gwenllian ferch Llywelyn, created circa 1209 passed away 1281.
- Angharad ferch Llywelyn, created circa 1210, died 1257
- Tegwared ap Llywelyn – created circa 1210, possible twin to help you Angharad?
- ‘Helen’, otherwise ‘Susanna’, produced circa 1214? Died 1259?
There was far disagreement over the identity of your parents out of these types of pupils. There was standard arrangement the simply particular college students from Llywelyn’s elizabeth Prince from Wales and you may Ellen (Helen) exactly who married (1) John the Scot, child of one’s earl away from Chester and (2) Robert de- Quincy. Though view is actually split up across the moms and dads off Gwladus, Gwenllian, Margred and you will Susanna, a good many genealogists You will find read slim to your the mother getting Joanna.
That is partly the help of its supposed dates out-of birth because the better because their marriages to different marcher lords who, one supposes, might have sought for to line-up their homes to that of their neighbor, the new Prince out-of Northern Wales and his partner, the newest queen away from England’s daughter. It’s believed such lords of your own February would not have seen so much attract or political inspiration in marrying of their sons on the illegitimate daughters out-of a Welsh prince with a Welsh lady.
As https://brightwomen.net/no/kirgisiske-kvinner/ to what brands of them pupils, if or not of the Joanna, Tangwystl otherwise anyone else, these were all the named after members of Llywelyn’s household members:
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Llywelyn’s mom try entitled ‘ed ‘Susanna’ from Gwynedd. Their paternal grandmother is actually called ‘Gwladus’. The mother and father of their grandmother Susanna, was basically ‘Gruffudd’ ap Cynan and you may ‘Angharad’ out-of Flint and one another the names were given to Llywelyn’s people. That it Susanna and additionally had a sister called ‘Gwenllian’, an identical term given that Llywelyn’s great-grandmother.